Kenny, if you have any time left...
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 Kenny, if you have any time left...
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| Author | Topic: Kenny, if you have any time left... |
| #1
notesleb Guru Posts: 597 |
posted 04-11-2001 08:32 PM
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I'm getting conflicting opinions on one of the tracks on our album, could you do a little review of it for me? "Unless You Know" IP: Logged |
| #2
KennyLee Guru Posts: 1799 |
posted 04-11-2001 09:13 PM
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Hard to evaluate. I don't like this mix. I don't like the sound on the fuzzy guitar. Your voice seems to be separate from the track. Musically you're in 6/8 with other time signatures at times. Could be the mix, but I don't hear continuity in the track. Compositionally, it seems to be working the Jack Bruce area. But not performed in that way. Especially on the drums. This composition would work better with a Tony Williams approach on the groove, seems to me. It's like a work in progress to me, I guess. Plus there is a lot of tension and anger in this track I have not heard in your compositions before. You haven't been listening to morphyx, have you? ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #3
KennyLee Guru Posts: 1799 |
posted 04-12-2001 01:41 AM
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I have listened a little bit more to the new stuff, Stephen. The mix is not working for me over all. Drums too bright, too loud too busy. Vocals do not sound "in the track". The fuzzy guitar sound does not work for me. Damn, am I a picky asshole or what? I'll see how they sound to me tomorrow. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #4
pitchfork Guru Posts: 144 |
posted 04-12-2001 02:37 AM
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heh, interesting. FYI kenny, I just reviewed this track today, and we agree quite a bit. but I must say, your comments are more helpful and more technical. I kind of shoot for reviewing the feeling, and I would never bust out with a 6/8 time crack. heh, but you may have something there. I thought the continuity was there and the odd time signature added some novelty. I mentioned that the progression grew on me as I listened, but the song wasn't engaging me enough. we totally agree on the fuzzy guitar though. overall, I don't think I agree on the mix problems you mention, especially about the drums. though, the cymbals are swooshing, but that's 128 MP3 artifacts...could a lot of swooshing suggest too many highs in the wave? we also both agree on the busy drums. the issues surrounding the vocal separateness could be something. typically, JamFree songs are light with the vocals like steve is too far back from the mic or something. do you compress the vocals? also, fear not the bass response! after listening again, my favorite track at the moment is "soiled alms" anyway, interesting review kenny. you have a knack for this. hey, how about a pitchfork review? ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #5
KennyLee Guru Posts: 1799 |
posted 04-12-2001 04:56 AM
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Pitchfork. Stream of consciousness stuff. Looking for synchronicity. Mind African rhythm, modal banjo, layered electronics. Fuck with your mind is the message. Secret War A speech by a politician with layered sounds. Ending with foreign voices testifying about something. Fuck with your mind is the message. Bajourou Repeating layered bass guitar, acoustic guitar. Fuck with your mind is the messaqe. ---------------- Everything is very well done and very well mixed. Pitchfork is into sound design. All to communicate the Pitchfork message of "I wanna fuck with your mind". If you want your mind fucked with, I can recommend no better source.
How 'bout a Secret War wit dat? ------------------ [This message has been edited by KennyLee (edited 04-12-2001).] IP: Logged |
| #6
notesleb Guru Posts: 597 |
posted 04-12-2001 01:10 PM
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Thanks. Believe it or not these ARE the kinda comments I was looking for and I appreciate your time and ears. I completely disagree with both of you on the drums (too busy? Pshaw!). Drums rock, if Charlie Parker were a drummer, this is the kinda shit he'd play. Many of my favorite bands (Mahavishnu, Jean Luc Ponty, Brand X, Return to Forever, almost all Shrapnel artists, Yes, UK, King Crimson, Pantera, etc.) have busy drums. What the hell has drum machine done to the idea of drumming these days. I dig simple drumming on a lot of stuff but there's a void, not too many solo drummers ripping it up these days. You guys haven't commented on the overly busy Fender Rhodes, perhaps it's more accepted, either way JamFree is about playing what you feel and on most of these tunes we felt charged (therefore busy). As far as the Fuzzy guitar goes, I suppose it's a matter of taste. I'll admit the Fuzzy guitar on 'Unless You Know' took me a few listens to get used to, now that I am used to it I'm not sure I want to lose it. I've grown kinda fond of it. On the other songs the 'Fuzzy' guitar is not going anywhere, you'll have to be more specific as to what you didn't like. On 'Soiled Alms', 'Rage', and 'State of Emergency' the guitar sounds are really what I was going for, aside from mastering (which will fix a lot of what might be bothering you) they'll stay. We did have tracking problems when we recorded the guitars for 'State of Emergency' it wasn't tracked at Freedom Studio, you can hear some digital distortion that kinda sucks but I don't hate it. Thanks for listening and the more feedback the better, I'm way too set in my ways to change our playing style but I'll probably remix "Unless You Know". IP: Logged |
| #7
notesleb Guru Posts: 597 |
posted 04-12-2001 01:33 PM
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Oh, BTW, for your amusement, here's a new mix of Unless You Know. It's a lot shorter about 3 minutes. Warning, you might want to smoke one first IP: Logged |
| #8
pitchfork Guru Posts: 144 |
posted 04-12-2001 01:36 PM
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haha, one damn line and you're on a tear. hey, I'm not the mind-fuck-wither! well, maybe a little. so, there's no layered electronics on "mind", just a sample in the beginning. on bajourou the repeating part is an acoustic, but everything else is drifting about. thanks for the review kenny! you and your team of writers are funny. not all my songs fuck with your mind! ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #9
pitchfork Guru Posts: 144 |
posted 04-12-2001 01:48 PM
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I'll give it a listen when I get back to the T1 connection! but about your reply: pshaw on the busy drums, eh? ...yeah yeah. I don't think I feel as strong as kenny, and often (more than not) there are times when I really dig the drums, but sometimes I get the feeling that he should back off a minute. the exchange between you all can, at times, be more attenuated. sometimes it's like when everybody is talking at a party and no one hears a word. be careful about getting used to a part that several people comment they don't care for! (i.e., fuzzy guitar on 'unless you know'). you can get used to just about anything...and familiarity often leads to an attraction. you do have a point when you say you want freedom, but you have constraints...like um, you use instruments, and you play in key...so it's not that much more of a stretch to make judgments post hoc that a part needs to go. also, charged doesn't have to mean busy. less is more, and dynamics are key. you know this stuff...I'm just reminding you.
quote: hey, you know this doesn't apply to me! ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #10
KennyLee Guru Posts: 1799 |
posted 04-12-2001 04:53 PM
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Uh, you guys are wrong. I am right. he he ho ho Actually the only opinion that matters is the recording artist. Sometimes reviews and feedback help the artist, sometimes not. In this case, both of you muthafokers asked me to review. So I did. Be careful what you ask for. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #11
notesleb Guru Posts: 597 |
posted 04-12-2001 05:11 PM
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I'll just say once more that I really appreciate you taking the time to review our tune Kenny. Thanks. P.S. IP: Logged |
| #12
pitchfork Guru Posts: 144 |
posted 04-12-2001 05:12 PM
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I liked the review. art is a collaboration betwen artists and audiences, so all opinions matter. art is not creating things in isolation, that's masturbation. well, the artist and audience can be the same person...that's a different story. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #13
KennyLee Guru Posts: 1799 |
posted 04-12-2001 06:05 PM
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quote: Ah, in reflection, pitchfork has hit upon the point I would like to make. I really like Stephens performances (fuzzy guitar sound aside). The drums and bass (from my view) exist to support that. In this case the drums, and sometimes the bass, are distracting me from Stephen's performance of the composition. Battling for their own attention in the recording. Ergo the tension and combat I hear in the piece. Hey, I may still be wrong. But I just wanted to state my wrongness a little better. Making me a consumer of Stephens solo work but not necessarily his Band work. OK, that's it. I feel better now. Thanks, pitchfork. Nothing to see here. Move along. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #14
ATom2 Newbie Posts: 62 |
posted 04-12-2001 06:31 PM
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Hey notesleb, I downloaded the song, and I myself, like what I hear so far. I'm going to review it a few more times before I give my total opinion. I have to admit that the guitar seems a little busy and cutting. Not overboard, just a little too much. I think a more jazz tone to the guitar (richer) would help that out. As far as the drums, a little bright but nothing I would panic about. I made sure I shut off all my computer's effects before I listened to it and also flattened out my computers EQ. As I said, I will look into it more, but I do like it. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #15
notesleb Guru Posts: 597 |
posted 04-12-2001 07:16 PM
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Thanks Atom, your thoughts are definitly appreciated. Kenny, have you checked out the remix? IP: Logged |
| #16
KennyLee Guru Posts: 1799 |
posted 04-12-2001 08:13 PM
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Checking it out now. I already like it better. The Walrus was deel. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #17
notesleb Guru Posts: 597 |
posted 04-13-2001 12:21 PM
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Just want to thank you guys again. We remixed "Unless You Know" last night, it's amazing what Compression will do for vocals. I kept a lot of the Fuzzy guitar but eq'd it a lot differently and used it more sparingly. All of your comments were a big help. I upload the new mix tonight if you want to hear it, it should be available either this weekend or Monday. Engineering my own sessions is new to me, in the past I recorded in very high end studios where the engineer was top-notch and really knew what he/she was doing. I'm learning slowly, I may have to remix the whole album because the compression on the vocals help so much. BTW, Greg. Believe it or not I've actually had quite a few people comment that they like the Fuzzy guitar, go figure? I really have received conflicting opinions on the mix and song, hence this thread. Kids in the 18-24 age group have predominently loved the mix the way it was, nasty sounding guitar and all. [This message has been edited by notesleb (edited 04-13-2001).] IP: Logged |
| #18
pitchfork Guru Posts: 144 |
posted 04-13-2001 02:07 PM
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yeah, compression is good on vocals. steve albini says compression is a hack engineers best friend. seems like every steve albini record has crappy sounding vocals. heh. I'll listen to the new mix. about the guitar...it's not the fuzz per se, but rather the picking that I didn't think worked. almost like a metal solo...distracting. but anyway, about the age thing. yeah, I remember when my brother took me to the "baked potato" when I was like 14 (you know it, right?), and I saw my first real jazz fusion show. my favorite part was when the guitarist turned on the distortion. you get my drift? hehe you know me though...I like distortion. I'll put distortion on anything. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #19
notesleb Guru Posts: 597 |
posted 04-13-2001 02:37 PM
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quote: Yeah I know it, I played there several times in the late 80s early 90s, I had to promise them I wasn't going to drink...of course the guitar player was sneaking me beers. Man, those were some good shows, tight arrangements in 11/16 time sig. with tri-tone harmonies, 5 against 4 etc. etc.
quote: I said ages 18-24 not britteny spears/eminem fans  but yeah I get your drift. Actually most of the kids listening were 80s Punk fans so I'm a bit surprised your opinions differ so, hehehe
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| #20
pitchfork Guru Posts: 144 |
posted 04-13-2001 05:08 PM
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touche! haha...hey, any 80s punk worth hearin' won't have no speed metal pickin, junior! this latest mix certainly has potential. scarrrrp-scoo-scoo-scoo-scoo-scarrrrrp-booooopeeee-scarr-eeeep.... ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #21
notesleb Guru Posts: 597 |
posted 04-13-2001 05:30 PM
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quote: Well I've at least gotta do something with that pump organ sounding backwards Rhodes sound. Also if you reverse the reverse wav there's some cool sounding stuff created by the effects loops. IP: Logged |
| #22
pitchfork Guru Posts: 144 |
posted 04-13-2001 08:00 PM
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I was being serious! ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #23
notesleb Guru Posts: 597 |
posted 04-15-2001 12:01 AM
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FYI: The new mix of Unless You Know is now available for DOWNLOAD from my site: http://www.jamfree.com/music.htm I've also home mastered the rest of the tunes from the album, Kenny will probably hate them but they sound a lot better IP: Logged |
| #24
KennyLee Guru Posts: 1799 |
posted 04-15-2001 03:15 PM
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quote: Well, they do sound a lot better. But, based on your previous comments, you are still learning the fine art of mastering, mixing, etc. Working toward getting that skill up to your expected level. And this project is a step along the way. One day you will have it perfected. And that is the main problem I have with this project. mastering, mixing, etc. And hey, I'm not very good at that either. I too am working on learning it. Anyhow, as I look back at my first reaction, that is what jumped out to me immediately. Compositionally, this Jack Bruce area you are working in doesn't do a lot for me. But that is just me. I'm not even into Jack Bruce doing Jack Bruce. But I love the piano intro and the piano outro. Just cut out all that stuff in between. (insert scathing chuckle here) Now that I have spent some time taking a look at the work of Stephen LeBlanc. It's time for a summation. You see, my scathing opinion is that I like Stephen's keyboard work. I like Stephens acoustic guitar work. I like Stephen's vocals. I like Stephen's compositions that work in the traditional areas. I think that Stephens strength musically is intelligence and sensitivity. Not aggression and raw power. Jamfree appears to working in the area of aggression. Which is not Stephen's strong point to me. All this of course, is just one man's scathing opinion. Opinions being of course, like assholes. In that everybody has one. Except for ATom2. Who has an alien digestive tract. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #25
notesleb Guru Posts: 597 |
posted 04-16-2001 12:30 AM
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Good enough Kenny. Honest and well spoken. I know there's an audience for this music though, I've actually met several of them, yeah we've got some fans I would like to add my thoughts on one thing you said though. JamFree isn't about aggression, it's not about moving in any particular direction, pick out some of the phrases in "Rage" and you'll see a very bright picture. It's about life, I've been through some rough shit lately, most people have. How do I deal with it? Music is therapy, friends have been able to relate to the lyrics and it made a difference in their lives. All of it ends up in a positive place, peace and love is what it's all about. I think we've only just begun to explore the compositional aspect of what we do. In the near future expect a Country tune (Bakersfield country but there will be a hint of Willie too), real jazz tune, etc. etc. And one thing we will never stop doing is recording live improvisational experiments, these creations are much better than they often get credit for. Hendrix died far too young and the spirit of Miles must live forever. Anyway, I'm really glad you enjoy my keyboard playing, it feels real good seeing how you're a bonafid working musician and all. You even know what a C9#11 is. Thanks again for listening. IP: Logged |
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