Why it doesn't matter bout Napster!
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 Why it doesn't matter bout Napster!
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| #1
KennyLee Guru Posts: 1435 |
posted 02-11-2001 03:29 AM
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After an exhausting research period (10 minutes on the NapsterBB) I now see why it don't matter bout Napster. Since I last checked the OpenNap server movement has multiplied dramatically. As a matter a fact, they say that the independent servers outnumber Napster servers 3 to 1. They are busy educating Rene right now. Anyhow, here's some links to Napster alternatives: Or you could go to www.zeropaid.com which lists a bunch of other stuff. Anything I've missed? ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #2
Snake Crew Guru Posts: 122 |
posted 02-11-2001 01:53 PM
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Rene calling legal team to make them aware of all the clone sites ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #3
KennyLee Guru Posts: 1435 |
posted 02-11-2001 03:04 PM
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Hey, Rene. There may not be enough lawyers in the world. What you need is the military. Also, something else I noticed on the NapsterBB. It's a whole lot different talking to a bunch of customers, isn't it? Instead of talking to artists that is. Kinda of like the difference between being backstage and being out in the crowd. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #4
Snake Crew Guru Posts: 122 |
posted 02-11-2001 03:11 PM
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yeah there are assholes backstage and out in the crowd too. I made a deal with this character here so don't disappoint me ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #5
KennyLee Guru Posts: 1435 |
posted 02-11-2001 03:57 PM
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Impressive! Good dental hygiene is a must! Hey, how you gonna stop all them OpenNap servers, Rene? They are all over the world. I mean, even Napster can't do anything about them. Nothing changes if Napster shut down tomorrow. The revolution is now stronger than Napster itself. Kinda like the damn Bolshevik's. They don't need a leader anymore. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #6
KennyLee Guru Posts: 1435 |
posted 02-11-2001 04:01 PM
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Operation Napster Storm ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #7
KennyLee Guru Posts: 1435 |
posted 02-11-2001 04:10 PM
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Bombed out OpenNap Server ------------------ [This message has been edited by KennyLee (edited 02-11-2001).] IP: Logged |
| #8
KennyLee Guru Posts: 1435 |
posted 02-11-2001 04:45 PM
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Cluster of Open Nap servers Destroyed ------------------ [This message has been edited by KennyLee (edited 02-11-2001).] IP: Logged |
| #9
KennyLee Guru Posts: 1435 |
posted 02-11-2001 04:56 PM
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Remains of the last Napster user put on display ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #10
KennyLee Guru Posts: 1435 |
posted 02-11-2001 05:00 PM
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Rene's new girlfriend really likes her new Harley ------------------ [This message has been edited by KennyLee (edited 02-11-2001).] IP: Logged |
| #11
deel Guru Posts: 211 |
posted 02-11-2001 08:05 PM
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hehe! damn! lol! ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #12
ShakyTee Guru Posts: 968 |
posted 02-12-2001 02:08 AM
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I'll tell my husband!  Hey Kenny!! How about Gnutella? ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #13
KennyLee Guru Posts: 1435 |
posted 02-12-2001 11:16 AM
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quote: Hi Shaky! Gnutella uses "distributed" network sharing. Which can be sloooooooooow. Many people thought that Gnutella and FREENET would be necessary. But apparently, the users of Napster have realized that they do not need the Napster company. You know, kinda like when Paisley realized he didn't need the MP3.com bulletin board. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #14
pmarinovich Guru Posts: 395 |
posted 02-12-2001 05:31 PM
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If the penalty is made stiff enough, all the clones will simultaneously fold in fear. It'll be no big deal to enforce. If the users can find the clones, so can the industry. The industry has also shown that it has the muscle to pursue it's intentions on foreign soil as well by shutting down sites based in Hong Kong, Thailand, and Taiwan. The industry is even more powerful than ever now, because this time they are actually in the right. I will never understand the short-sighted, self-destructive, childish obsession of the pro-Napster artists. It's all "gimme, gimme, gimme" and "I wanna, wanna, wanna." And they are too ignorant to understand that they are slicing their own throats. They naively think they are going to bring down the record labels -- incredibly huge megacorporations that are vested in every facet of our social fabric. Nothing could be further from the truth. Napster is merely a pimple's worth of nuissance to them. Napster is a great tool for touring artists -- artists who can afford to sacrifice their comodity in order to make money on concert ticket sales. However, laws have to be passed to protect ALL artists not just a handfull of roadmongers. Napster will not win on appeal at any level. And the little Napster cronies will always be too childish to admit that they were wrong all along. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #15
KennyLee Guru Posts: 1435 |
posted 02-12-2001 06:13 PM
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quote: We mock what we do not understand. And you don't understand. So you mock. Gotcha. Anyhow, Pete, don't get too worked up over what happened today. Every case of this type lost in the lower courts. Victory only comes at the Supreme Court level. That's the way it was for Betamax VCR. That's the way it was for Diamond Rio. And that's the way it will be for Napster. Since Napster makes no money? It's easy to see that shutting them down will not hurt them. Napster has 50 million dollars of BMG money to play with. Plus they just hired on Joel Klein to work with David Boise. Together they toppled Microsoft. Guess they might have a shot at the RIAA. The anti-trust issue is not in play yet. Or the constitutional issues. That will happen at the Supreme Court level. What's the RIAA gonna do about every one else with an OpenNap server? Guess we will see. A lot of them are offshore. Like them gambling servers and porno servers. Different jurisdiction, Pete.
[This message has been edited by KennyLee (edited 02-12-2001).] IP: Logged |
| #16
pmarinovich Guru Posts: 395 |
posted 02-12-2001 07:03 PM
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David Boise didn't topple Microsoft and he sure as hell didn't help Al Gore any. I know that your dramatic fantasy wants to think that some superstar lawyer will somehow come out of the blue and outwitt these dimwitted judges. Not likely. The real world doesn't work like that (except maybe the O.J. case). This is a much, much bigger scene with a lot more money at stake. Billions, in fact. Microsoft went down because Bill Gates was wrong. The case was lost before it was started. The legal representation made little or no difference. The same goes for Napster. Napster is more wrong than Gates and far less powerful. Kenny, I understand far more than you will ever admit. Your smugness and condescension changes nothing. Napster is stealing money out of my pocket, my friends' pockets, and is undermining everything I've been busting my ass for these past few years. Maybe I don't understand, but apparently a lot of very prominent judiciary officials equally "don't understand." Gimme a break. I think many artists can't face the fact that they don't have what it takes so they are trying to momentarily bring successful stars down to their level with playtoys like Napster. It might even work, but that doesn't change the fact that it is very, very wrong. You all know this deep inside but persist in this tantrum-like obsession. I don't want my success to come by way of an unjust penalty to legitimate artists. I want people to be rewarded for their musical contributions to society. Rene made the Napster anology to people looting a small town after a tornado strike. The anology was perfect. It is repulsive. Kenny, I am not a religious person. I don't think I even believe in God at all. But I am not afraid to stand up and say that something is wrong regardless of how uncool it might make me look. Now pat me on my bald little head and smuggly patronize me some more to try to further the illusion of your superior intellect. This is no game, Kenny. If Napster had won, I would probably have given up the pursuit of a musical career forever. I would have also lost the last bit of faith I have in the judicial system. Signing out. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #17
KennyLee Guru Posts: 1435 |
posted 02-12-2001 08:06 PM
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quote: I beg your pardon. My smugness and condescension changes everything. Why am I so smug and condescending? Because Napster does not harm my career in the least. It may help it. I play live. Sell my CDs live. Done it all my life. It's a fun life. Pays decent. Really depends on how hard I wanna work. So I can be as smug and condescending as I want. Because the music business is not a fantasy to me. Just give Kenny Lee an instrument to play and a mike to sing through and the audience will pay Kenny Lee. So, Pete, I'm not worried about the RIAA not getting their $14.00 an album so the artist can get 50 cents. Cause I know the customer will pay. They are by and large a bunch of really nice people. They will tip me $20 to hear me sing BIG FAT GIRLFRIEND or one of my other fun tunes in addition to what I get paid. They will pay $15 for my CD. I like the consumer a lot. Unlike the money grubbing fascists that run the Record Companies that want to take from Kenny Lee and everyone else. Kenny Lee plays blues and jazz and is over 30 so the RIAA won't even give me the chance to be ripped off by them. So I say. Fuck 'em. Fuck 'em all. And I say it in a smug and condescending way, Pete. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #18
dond Guru Posts: 219 |
posted 02-12-2001 08:40 PM
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I have to agree with Pete about Napster. I think he's right, and, states his case far better then I ever could! Thanks Pete! In one sense, I'm like you kenny, and, 95% of my current CD sales come from live gigs. But, in 1999, my web sales were only 3%. The web, for our artists grew by 40% in one year! This is the very near future. This growth rate has lasted for the last 3 years, and, only shows signs of increasing. It's where we're going. 2001 is turning out to be even better, and, not at the expense of our live event sales...they are improving too, but, not like the web sales. I know 8% of our live audiences, for a good show, will buy a CD. I'm trying to book bigger shows! Our web sales are dismal, but, the body count keeps increasing...geometrically, from around the world! I currently sell more CD's in Japan, and, the Peoples Republic of China, then I sell in California! My world got a lot smaller! Today, I can quote prices in Yen, and Yuan. 5 years ago, I had no idea what they were! Napster is our future, and, if it's free, we won't eat tomorrow. I love the concept, but, until a payment method is in place, to pay for my 6 figure investment in equipment, pay for all the muscians I hire for recording sessions, and, reward the songwriters for their work, I think Napster is another word for theft, from basically poor people, who can least afford another ripoff! I pray Napster II will pay royalties...let them find a way to do that, and, I'll be their biggest booster and cheerleader. I hope Napster, as it currently exists, as a theft device, gets hanged in the courts!! I hope they shut it down totally, and, a new, legal, Phoenix will rise from the ashes. If Judge Patel had her own CD, I would buy dozens, and, hand them out to everyone I meet. I'm her biggest fan!!!!! She is the indie producers guardian angel! ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #19
KennyLee Guru Posts: 1435 |
posted 02-12-2001 09:07 PM
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quote: All said very well, dond. But we all could stand to lose a little weight. I mean, Napster (the company) probably IS gone. Partially because of the legal problems and the expenses of that. Partly because of the mental energy of Pete and others like him that hate Napster so much. But mainly because the customers do not need Napster anymore. And the servers do not need to be in the United States of America. There are plenty of offshore locations where OpenNap can run. Completely out of the jurisdiction of the US. That is where the majority of swapping is going on today!! On a server untouched by Napster (the company). On a server that the Supreme Court of the United States of America cannot shut down! So if Napster is going to keep you from eating tomorrow? (which I don't think it is, but still) Then you are going to be a lean and sleek dond very soon. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #20
notesleb Guru Posts: 520 |
posted 02-12-2001 10:18 PM
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quote:
I'm not trying to bring anyone down, I can't bring the record labels down only the people who buy their dreck can. Many of the most successful acts major labels make money from are sold on image alone. People spend money on the CDs because the image told them it was good, not because they heard the music. Napster gives people a chance to hear the music before they buy, more often than not it seems the image is less appealing once you've heard the product. Why was Metallica so pissed? They're new album sucks, Metallica fans hear it on Napster and decide not to buy it. Metallica can't sell albums based on an old reputation and millions in marketing anymore.
quote: Napster is less of a nuissance than that right now, CD sales are up. The idea behind Napster and the possible effect it will have on their future is a very big nuissance because it takes away their ability to mystify the crap they sell. I'm not saying all music released by the Majors sucks, just the stuff that's their bread and butter Basically I agree with everything Kenny Lee has said, he says it better than I could. IP: Logged |
| #21
KennyLee Guru Posts: 1435 |
posted 02-13-2001 12:49 AM
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quote: Well, to me it's not about the music that is on the majors. It's about the music that is NOT on the majors. Before fascism set in, decades ago, radio and TV was more open. So a lot of great stuff came through. Even ugly people had hit records. Remember? ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #22
notesleb Guru Posts: 520 |
posted 02-13-2001 12:10 PM
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quote: Yeah that's definitly been my biggest problem with the way things are now IP: Logged |
| #23
pmarinovich Guru Posts: 395 |
posted 02-13-2001 06:52 PM
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quote: Stephen, Can't you see that the answer is in your own post? Okay, so you don't like Metallica. I don't like them either. Nobody rocks forever. They were once popular and now they are losing it. Do you hate their music so much that you want to see them suffer as humans? They've been ripped to shreads by bad recording deals as it is. I know you're a decent guy. Decent folk eventually lose all this senseless vindictiveness. The guys in Metallica are really no different than us. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #24
notesleb Guru Posts: 520 |
posted 02-13-2001 07:32 PM
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quote: Oh c'mon Pete, I don't have anything against Metallica. No vindictiveness here. The guys in Metallica are different from me though, they've made a choice to sacrifice creativity by copying whatever is on the radio. I've made a choice to do the opposite. If you've followed the music they've made it's obvious what the motivation behind there music is now. I am pissed at Lars for fighting his fans by screaming about Napster. The kids that download Metallica are the same kids that support his expensive tours and buy T-Shirts. Metallica has been raped by record companies but they make more money touring that probably 90% of the groups out there. I don't want to argue this shit anymore but I will continue to clarify my view when the opposite is stated. I am a decent guy, I also know Napster ain't hurting anyone yet and will probably never hurt true artists. IP: Logged |
| #25
pmarinovich Guru Posts: 395 |
posted 02-13-2001 08:27 PM
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quote: True artists? So if I complain that people are downloading my songs against my will then I am not a true artist? And you have the right to make that determination?
------------------ IP: Logged |
| #26
KennyLee Guru Posts: 1435 |
posted 02-13-2001 08:52 PM
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Download my music! Loved by thousands! Buy my CD! Kenny Lee's Blues Party! Here's just some of what people are saying about it!!
Don't delay! Buy it today!! ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #27
notesleb Guru Posts: 520 |
posted 02-13-2001 11:18 PM
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quote: Don't be an ass Pete, you know I never said that. I just said Napster isn't hurting you. And probably won't, ever. BTW,
quote: They are collecting royalties, I just bought a copy of Master of Puppets to replace my cassette. My nephew and his friends just bought old Metallica albums, the music rocks. They just don't have any interest in their new albums. We also just bought a bunch of records from independent artists and RadioHead (a Major Label artist) that are all freely available on Napster. Who's being hurt, Britteny Spears? True Artist? I don't know, if she is people will pay for it, they're doing it that anyway. [This message has been edited by notesleb (edited 02-13-2001).] IP: Logged |
| #28
pmarinovich Guru Posts: 395 |
posted 02-14-2001 03:21 PM
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I hope deel doesn't mind me quoting him here. quote: Stephen, I'll decide whether or not I am being hurt by Napster, thank you. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #29
notesleb Guru Posts: 520 |
posted 02-14-2001 08:38 PM
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Well deel and I have agreed to disagree on a lot of issues and it hasn't hurt our online friendship a bit. Actually I think deel and I are on excellent terms. Using someone elses words to attempt to discredit me is really lame, nothing in the quote directly challenges anything I've said in this thread. You've obviously abandoned rational discussion using your own thoughts so I'll leave now. IP: Logged |
| #30
pmarinovich Guru Posts: 395 |
posted 02-14-2001 10:15 PM
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Oh, so I don't play fair? That's right. I'm not playing at all. This is not some game to see if greedy little surfers can beat the evil rockstar, Lars, in a contest of wills. These are decisions that effect hundreds of thousands of artists who are like me and hope to recoup some of the thousands of dollars we've spent over the years to pay for studio time, recording equipment, instruments, etc. We finally get a little hope with exposure on the internet and bam, Napster comes along to make sure we can't profit from it. Using new technology on the internet to break existing laws is anarchy. The internet is full of anarchy because it moves so fast. Now I've got assinine anarchists acusing me of being a fascist??? Duh, what the fuck nonsense is that? Every time Kenny starts to lose the argument he changes the argument to make it sound like we are fighting new technology. Nobody is fighting against new technology. We are fighting against the misuse of new technology. The lawsuit is not against new technology. It is against Napster. For God's sake, why don't you people get smart enough to figure that out. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #31
deel Guru Posts: 211 |
posted 02-14-2001 11:17 PM
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hehe! even in my own band i stand alone in my views. one thing that i have learned in my 38 years is that everyone is different, and i find it amazing that we as humans can actually get along at all.. pete / notesleb you're both awesome musical talents and both have strong points to your arguments.. respects to both of you.  like an old friend of my usually said after stating his opinion.."i could be wrong"
quote: sounds like they will be paying royalties, but what about the unsigned artists or the small labels, this is where i have a beef with all of this legal manuevering being staged by the high power lawyers, labels and OMD's. and what i mean by same cut is..if brittiny spleen get .05 cents per song on napster i want .05 cents per song. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #32
KennyLee Guru Posts: 1435 |
posted 02-14-2001 11:41 PM
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quote: Well, just do a Richard Nixon here, Pete. Declare Victory and Retreat. Kenny Lee says the same thing over and over and over again. Interjecting Kenny Lee's trademark humor throughout, of course. Another thread here starts with the same information about the history of copyright that Kenny Lee always talks about. From the head of the CEA. So there. But it's not new technology you are fighting, Pete. Napster is actually OLD technology. A couple of OLD technologies packaged in a new "easy to use" way. People were already doing what Napster does loooooong before Napster came along. And people will keep doing it long after Napster is gone. I don't use Napster anymore. Or the Napster servers. I use Rapigator and the MusicCity servers. Faster better easier than Napster. Better search results. weAponX can get you anything you want and he doesn't need Napster to do it. He made a quote yesterday about Napster that I thought was good. "Cut off the tip of the iceberg and what do you get? Answer: The rest of the iceberg!" Go there Pete. Cause that's where your real enemy is now. It ain't Napster. That was last year. Your real enemy, Pete, is the 57 million people that use Napster. And the other 57 million that use something else. More people than voted in the Presidential election(50 million total votes last November plus some hanging chads). They did a poll on MSNBC yesterday. "Should Napster be shut down?" 142,000+ people responded. 87% said NO! And these are the smart people that have computers and can type, Pete. If they put Napster to a vote tomorrow, Pete? Napster will win in a landslide.
[This message has been edited by KennyLee (edited 02-14-2001).] IP: Logged |
| #33
deel Guru Posts: 211 |
posted 02-15-2001 12:11 AM
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quote: yeah if they asked for a vote on making gasoline free it would win in a landslide too.
quote: MSNBC is just another example of candy coated crap, you don't actually think they report the news do you? they package it. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #34
pmarinovich Guru Posts: 395 |
posted 02-15-2001 11:35 AM
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Forget it deel, I recently told Sean Fenlon how it was breaking my heart to see that this bulletin board had become a hangout for anti-artist sentiment after it was created by the biggest pro-artist person I had ever met. There is not much traffic here. That is why diseased thought can thrive and fester like an untreated boil. Most of these pro-Napster "ideals" would get blown out of the water in a higher profile area just like they were destroyed in a court of law. You talk about "can't see the forest for the trees." Look at Kenny's last post. He takes my term "new technology" and drags it into a whole bunch of irrelevant minutia -- a true master of splitting hairs. At this point we should probably just go play some music because there is nothing more we can say or do. Thieves will be thieves. Inconvenient truths will be discarded by the masses but, hopefully, embraced by the authorities. Kenny, you are right. My real enemy are those 57 million people who are stealing music (you see, I can concede a point). But when you go to a public forum and snidely act like the voice of that 57 mil., you better be prepared to accept the consequences. Consequence number one: artists like me will view you as an irresponible anti-artist, trying to stir up a little cult following of non-thinkers to satisfy some dimented ego malfunction. I feel a certain attachment to this place so I find it hard to let bullshit go uncontested. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #35
KennyLee Guru Posts: 1435 |
posted 02-15-2001 05:55 PM
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quote: Well, Pete, this is called listenSMART.com. It is then supposed to be for SMART people. That's why it is a great place to discuss important matters. Because it was designed that way. The people that have regressed to dumbness, like Davey Boy Crocky and Bass Dude, just pop in here and post some guttural grunt in ALL CAPS and leave. The SMART people are the only ones able to have a discussion here. *demented does not have an "i" in it, by the way. Probably just a typo. ------------------ [This message has been edited by KennyLee (edited 02-15-2001).] IP: Logged |
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