music is......
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 music is......
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| Author | Topic: music is...... |
| #1
parzival Guru Posts: 397 |
posted 05-18-2000 03:11 AM
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Music is... 1. utterly confusing in it's simplicity 2. a very enpensive and exhausting hobby 3. a snarling bitch goddes who eats her young 4. a big, fuzzy ,huggy universal language 5. hard to create, easy to steal 6. a method of lending impact to otherwise shallow contemplations 7. a very clever way to appear clever. 8. the language of emotion 9. constant proof that god loves us and loves to see us happy. 10.a delightfull way to make meaning out of chaos 11. elusive when desired, abundant when surrendard 12. the egos way of appearing humble 13. the strongest imaginable argument for the existance of God. 14. the most manipulative form of magic 15. the incidental factor in every shopping trip 16. the closest I'll ever come to being good at math 17. a key factor in many divorces 18. getting laoder every year 19. a weapon in the hands of industry 20. a shield in the hands of the oppressed 21. a pretty good way to meet girls 22. easy to imitate, hard to originate 23. the way we discribe whats happenig to us 24. a way for ex hippie spawn turned venture capitalists to find a way of pakaging and marketing extruded packages of product fed from birth till death to anyone feeble enough to foist whatever they think they can sell at any givin time #24 (courtesy of mr. Satinover..the astonishingly prolific and ecclectic indie guru and all around good guy...)
------------------ [This message has been edited by parzival (edited 05-18-2000).] IP: Logged |
| #2
KennyLee Guru Posts: 1249 |
posted 05-18-2000 05:13 AM
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Music is a way to communicate, parzival. Language is limited in it's ability to convey information and emotion. Mathematics works much better in a way. And the resonance of music is very mathematical. When we talk we use language but we also use music, whether we realize it or not. You can write the musical patterns of each persons speech on a piece of staff paper. Some people speak with one note. A Monotone. Some people use all the notes. Animals make music. They sing to each other all the time. Humpback whales have sold more albums that most of us ever will. Plants also respond to music. The universe vibrates. Different parts of the universe vibrate at different frequencies. We are limited by our ability to perceive and understand the reality of the universe When we meet living beings from other worlds we will first communicate with music and mathematics. Unless they disintegrate us first. So, you see, there is more to music than we can derive from your list, parzival. Your list seems to be based more on the music business, instead of music itself. Except that part about meeting females. Even animals sing to get laid. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #3
DoctorOakroot Guru Posts: 562 |
posted 05-18-2000 09:33 AM
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Kenny Lee said: quote: What list were you reading Kenny??? Example: quote: That has nothing to do with the industry or getting laid - but it's sure the truth... Lot's of other gems in there too Dr O ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #4
bobp Guru Posts: 601 |
posted 05-18-2000 09:52 AM
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Both posts are good and worth reading. Preacher, Your list could be the beginnings of a song itself. Bob Porri ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #5
Rob Gerard Newbie Posts: 47 |
posted 05-18-2000 10:01 AM
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I like this one... 10.a delightfull way to make meaning out of chaos and then would say this... utterly simplistic in it's confusion and would add... ...a defense mechanism against myself... Rob ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #6
Bruce Satinover Guru Posts: 253 |
posted 05-18-2000 11:15 AM
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I think you left out 24. 24. A way for greedy spawn of ex-hippie turned venture capitalists to find a way of packaging and marketing extruded packages of product fed from birth to death to anyone feeble enough to foist whatever they think they can sell at any given time this run on sentence was brought to you by ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #7
KennyLee Guru Posts: 1249 |
posted 05-18-2000 02:09 PM
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quote: Au contraire, mon Doctor of Tree Root. I'm sure the "snarling bitch goddess that eats her young" line has EVERYTHING to do with the industry. And if you're into kinky S&M sex it may have something to do with getting laid. Once. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #8
DoctorOakroot Guru Posts: 562 |
posted 05-18-2000 02:16 PM
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Well Kenny, I guess our heads are just in different places, I read the snarling bitch goddess as the muse who won't let you eat, drink, or sleep till you finish the damned song. You do know her, don't you? She visits me all the time!  ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #9
parzival Guru Posts: 397 |
posted 05-18-2000 03:30 PM
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HA HA!! kenny!! you wax philosophical!! Actually the post was just about how I happened to feel about music at 3:00 am on may 18th 2000. but I love your response!! And the Doctors as well. Music comes in all shapes and sizes..textures and varities, not all of it is the transendental celestial language that Kenny refers to...but some of it is!! I didn't mean to start an argument...I was just trying to sound clever many weird things happening to me around music..interpersonally, emotionally..... thanks all for the thoughtfull posts...and kenny...not ALL of that was about the industry.. peace all BRUCE!!! yes..that should be the official #24 !!! BOB!! i'll write the song..you do the solos!! ok? preacher ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #10
Theo Guru Posts: 238 |
posted 05-18-2000 03:32 PM
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quote: Sounds like a girl I once knew... ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #11
KennyLee Guru Posts: 1249 |
posted 05-18-2000 04:09 PM
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quote: Sounds like the Doctor comes from the Vincent Van Gogh school of artistic creativity, to me. A very painful process. Not the school that Kenny Lee goes to. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #12
ShakyTee Guru Posts: 952 |
posted 05-18-2000 04:10 PM
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quote: I had a boss like that once... ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #13
Bruce Satinover Guru Posts: 253 |
posted 05-18-2000 04:22 PM
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Hey Preacher, I thought maybe no one saw #24. Oops, gotta get back to promoting! Hope the mp3.com bbs is back on, I need to find a New Music Army sponsor. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #14
pmarinovich Guru Posts: 378 |
posted 05-18-2000 04:38 PM
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This time I agree with Doc O. #3 sums it up. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #15
DoctorOakroot Guru Posts: 562 |
posted 05-18-2000 04:41 PM
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quote: I'm there most of the time too... but there are those times... and you can't write the blues if you never feel the blues. Dr O ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #16
smuggles Newbie Posts: 29 |
posted 05-18-2000 04:54 PM
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number four. <giggles> ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #17
parzival Guru Posts: 397 |
posted 05-18-2000 06:32 PM
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Smuggles!! yes, that one was for you!!Kenny!!
definately not a path for everyone...but an important and admirable achievment for those who endure.. I don't seek out pain..but I don't deny it either...I have a hyperactive tragedy gland..things get to me...and they should I think. funny how so many identify with the bitch goddess... Like the good doctor, I often find the muse to be a bit of a dominatrix...hmmm...what would freud say to this ? peace all preacher ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #18
RazoR Newbie Posts: 19 |
posted 05-18-2000 06:52 PM
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25. Music is a vehicle for Bruce to create band 21, please return to reason #24.... ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #19
Ric Guru Posts: 234 |
posted 05-18-2000 08:55 PM
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Music is God. God is Music. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #20
LadyDaisy Guru Posts: 142 |
posted 05-18-2000 08:57 PM
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snarling bitch... I have one of those for a boss, goddess she is not! LadyD IP: Logged |
| #21
Artie J Guru Posts: 173 |
posted 05-18-2000 09:27 PM
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"Hug this big fuzzy here smuggles! hahhhhh..." I think it's like that Heisenberg uncertainty principle...the closer you analyze it and try to describe it, the further away you get from it's emotional essence. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #22
KennyLee Guru Posts: 1249 |
posted 05-18-2000 09:45 PM
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quote: First off, parzival, I think you missed all that stuff about the universe vibrating and animals and plants singing. As I have to often tell my band members, "sometimes it's not all about you." The point I'm trying to make is that music is not at all a purely human experience. It is instead part of everything. Animals and plants don't respond to the painted creativity of Van Gogh and Peter Max. They do respond to music. And they do make their own music. Music allows us to communicate on the level that all beings in the universe respond to. So, there's more to it than just what we perceive from our efforts in the "music business", where the snarling bitch goddess resides. Or to put it another way, composing the emotions of the heart is uplifting. But, composing and presenting your compositions for public and commercial purposes can be frustrating, because the composer is bound by trying to meet the limitations of the public arena and marketplace. What will people think? Will it sell? Will the bitch goddess like it? Or will she continue to snarl? The universe and the animals and the plants don't have to deal with these same considerations we do when composing music. Music has the charms, parzival. Just trying to get you to think outside the box is all. Which is what we sometimes aspire to at 3:00 AM.
------------------ [This message has been edited by KennyLee (edited 05-18-2000).] IP: Logged |
| #23
parzival Guru Posts: 397 |
posted 05-18-2000 11:42 PM
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kenny I did read..I told you I loved it. i'm just saying that the process is not always sweetness and lite!! and it is about me ME! ME! ME! ME! ME!!! it seems to me that a lot of the most powerfull art and music is born of suffering. I studied devotional music for a couple years and found it was at it's best when the composer was truly swept away...agonising over their seperation from god... no need to go into Beethoven...or charlie parker..or mingus, miles..or a gigantic collection of early blues artists It is the act of redemption that maybe causes the joy you speak of...taking what is cruel, unjust ect,,and causing it to transend through passion..or even humor. oddly...looked at this way we don't seem to dissagree. and I do appriciate being knocked out of my box..especially at 3:00 am as that seems to be the dark hour of my soul!! also if you read #s 11, 13 20 and 23 you will find that we agree on many points...but it amuses me to present both sides of the equasion...and to be honest with myself such as 6, 7, 12 and 22.. anyway it was not intended to be an exhaustive list...I had hoped that people would add to it. anyway.....your interpretation of music is wise..trancendental even...but like mine, It's not the whole story sooooo..c'mon make up #s 25-50!!! I'm really not a cynic...just incredibly immature!! :P peace preacher ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #24
KennyLee Guru Posts: 1249 |
posted 05-19-2000 12:54 AM
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Well, parzival, maybe it IS all about you. But allow me to continue arguing with you. The idea that suffering is necessary to create great art exists very strongly. Carlos Santana once attacked the myth of Robert Johnson and the Devil. Stating, I believe correctly, that the story was racist in nature, and a way to put down Robert Johnson's personal achievement and the art form he represented. You see, the public actually NEEDS all the show biz myth and legend stuff. If you don't give them a story then they will just make one up. But, when you boil it all down and shed your mind from the PR campaign, you are left with the composition and the performance. And what that communicates to the universe. Not just humans but animals and plants and aliens from other galaxies. And that speaks for itself without all the stories and myths of suffering and whatever else. Not to say that artists do not suffer as every one else does. Just that suffering is not necessarily related to the composing. It is part of the ad campaign that people need to go along with the music. Because most people can't understand why great music speaks to them the way it does. So they need something they CAN understand to go along with the music. And part of it comes from the insecurity of realizing another human being created something beautiful and timeless. Something they themselves could not do. So it becomes kind of like, "Yeah he wrote and recorded that but he sold his soul to the Devil". Or, "Yeah, he created that but look how he suffered to do it." I mean, preacher, I could cut off both ears and I still don't think I could paint like Vincent Van Gogh. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #25
parzival Guru Posts: 397 |
posted 05-19-2000 01:51 AM
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HA HA HA!!!! well...thats a pretty sound argument there !! It makes me think of pat Metheny...astounding, beutifull music that seems to be the result of dedication rather than suffering... and of course there are many others to support this theory... BUT!!!! I'm not saying seek out suffering or "sell your soul" (that was a bit of a backhanded argument!!) I'm saying that this world has a broken heart....so many of our greatest efforts are gone horribly askew....to not be effected by this, or to refuse to recognise it is a bit "enlightened" for my tastes. also...it's polite, when arguing, to address the points raised by the opposing party...this is what arguing is...once this is accomplished one often finds that two seemingly opposing points of view are in fact not as dissimiler as they may have first appeared. Where actuall flagerent differences do occur one can then begin formulating a summery to discount such points as seem inharmonious. In this way the argument can stay on topic and one is less inclined to speculate beyond the facts as to someones motivations. your contention that the idea of suffering in art should be relegated to the realms of MYTHOLOGY is absolutely correct!! Yes..religious and political motivations have conspired to discredit the true, timeless mythology behind the great artists, but to throw out the epic and recurring myth of suffering and redemption is to toss the baby with the bath water...so to speak. this is not a showbiz myth..this is the passion play of our procession through the aeons...Beware of to much happiness...utopia in music, society, literature and religion often seems to have sordid intentions. The world suffers...and art is often an escape...sort of like Escape from the planet of the Apes!!! in such a situation escapism seems like rational behavior!!! peace preacher ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #26
KennyLee Guru Posts: 1249 |
posted 05-19-2000 05:05 AM
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quote: I know. Hope I haven't spoiled your fun. By the way, you kind of lost me at the end there. Heavy preaching, full of pain and redemption. Not really arguing, so not much I can add. So, if you don't mind I'll interrupt our argument to tell you a story. I used to play Beale Street in Memphis a lot. Not much pay but it was Beale Street after all and I got to interact with a lot of the blues originators. Albert King was alive then and I got to meet him several times. He didn't tell me this but his friends did. Albert used to live by the tracks and would practice his guitar on the porch. the Doppler effect of the train going by made a rising and falling sound. Albert would bend the strings on his guitar to match the sound the train made as it went by. And that's how I was told he came up with the extreme bends of rising and falling sounds that every blues guitar player since tries to emulate. I was going to ask Albert about this but he died a month after I heard the story, with an uncashed check for $15,000.00 in his pocket, and a bunch of women saying he had promised them one of his Cadillac's when he died. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #27
sins tailor Guru Posts: 689 |
posted 05-19-2000 10:03 AM
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music is also amazing in the fact that someone you otherwise might hate or at least not like could through music make you feel deep emotions of sadness or happiness.......
music is also a good way to vent youer anger and through that maybe stake off some violent action music can be an almost religious feeling in it's transcendence of course that means i still haven't figured out what the hell any of yes's lyrics mean...........hehe IP: Logged |
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