You tell me, I am promotionally challenged
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 You tell me, I am promotionally challenged
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| Author | Topic: You tell me, I am promotionally challenged |
| #1
Bruce Satinover Guru Posts: 253 |
posted 03-13-2000 06:19 PM
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Much as I hate to admit it I just plain stink at promoting personal and band work. There is something to me, and I mean only me that finds the whole thing unpleasant. I don't have an bubbly or charismatic writing style and I am clueless on what to do to help get people to listen to what I'm involved in. I don't care for download swaps, that doesn't help me figure out whether people actually enjoy what they're hearing. Now if you ask me about other artists I can wax poetic and not feel like a twerp doing so. If you ask me about ArtistLaunch I can go on forever- literally- about why I think it's a good thing and why people should get involved, etc. I'm competely serious. For those who know me and those who don't I am in several projects that are fairly different from one another. I don't claim to be God's gift to music and sometimes feel weird when someone gives a really enthusiastic review. Any idea how to get people to my sites? I honestly believe open minded people would enjoy the music I'm involved with. Also, I can't believe there aren't a lot of people that would like to know how to help themselves out a bit. Site url's upon request. Bruce Satinover ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #2
SINTZ Guru Posts: 132 |
posted 03-13-2000 06:24 PM
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Bruce, I love you stuff. If you want a simple way to promote, go to Yahoo and look up Ezines with your genre or specialize in the type of music you do. Send press packs to those zines and email them letting them know who you are and that you sent it. If they like your stuff, you will get tons of people from the zines. Thats only one way but it works. Good luck dude.
TC ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #3
sins tailor Guru Posts: 687 |
posted 03-13-2000 06:26 PM
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damn bruce i think your promoting just fine 6 subjects posted in the last few hours... your takin up the whole board........ IP: Logged |
| #4
Andrew Hickey Guru Posts: 412 |
posted 03-13-2000 06:39 PM
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One thing that worked for me was putting my URLs in the sig file of my e-mail. I'm on lots of mailing lists for other musicians (Beach Boys, Zappa, Beefheart, Van Dyke Parks, Squeeze...) and two days after I put my URLs in my sig file I got (in one day) 300 downloads of one song at AMP3... And you needn't feel weird when given enthusiastic reviews - you're one of a very small number of truly excellent musicians on the net. Hey Frankie in particular is probably the best thing I've found on the free MP3 sites... ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #5
Anne Guru Posts: 429 |
posted 03-13-2000 08:20 PM
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quote: Umm - there may be one clue ... Why is it that you can wax poetic about other artists and Artistlaunch? Because you believe what you say when you do so and are confident in your convictions. It is also (I think) because you are somewhat removed from the other projects. When it is yourelf you are talking about, it is more personal and somewhat uncomfortable. Try to step back a bit from your own projects and talk about them the same way you would someone else's - look at them from the 'third person' angle and promote from there. Don't feel as much concerned about what the other person may think of you promoting your projects, but how you believe in what you are promoting to them. Well, that's one viewpoint. I'm sure there are more. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #6
zap Newbie Posts: 29 |
posted 03-14-2000 06:52 AM
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Bruce - it's all in the head. It's the most common problem in the world. You dont have a problem hyping somebody else, but when it comes to yourself... our upbringing conjures up an image of daddy with his eyes firmly fixed in yours saying "be honest now, son" (or daughter)!! Thats a hard image to shake off. What you do, is that you imagine you are the manager of your own band, and try as much as technically possible to TOTALLY IGNORE the fact you are IN the band (even if the band is JUST YOU!). Hence, automatically you will start writing in third person (which you should always do anyway, never use "I" or "me") and you will think about this band and how to market it. Just look at www.mp3.com/zap and see that there is 3rd person writing allovertheplace (I hope, if not I'll fix it) and not a streak of humbleness in site. It's because it was not *I*, zap the musician, who wrote it, it was *me*, zap the manager who did. And even though zap-the-musician might not agree with all the flamboyant things I write about him, I tell him "it's marketing, son", and he looms away shrugging saying "I guess it's okay then". /Z www.listensmart.com/zap ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #7
SteveHaugh Guru Posts: 639 |
posted 03-14-2000 07:53 AM
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Bruce, you and I've had this convo in the past. I feel very silly doing promo stuff. Hell I can barely remember to put my url in a post. I do like coming to boards and making an ass of myself, though. I suppose that's whats gotten me any downloads/sales. I know some people will take offense at this, but I have to giggle when I see so many of us home studio writers/recorders/artists playing the game on the boards as if they're advertising in a major music rag, building for themselves a portfolio of self taken photography that would rival that of the entire Ford Modelling Agency in it's quantity. (but a pithy comparison in quality). It may very well be that that's the kind of The two best thing for me having put The sad part about the net and music is that IP: Logged |
| #8
RhythmStar Guru Posts: 277 |
posted 03-14-2000 07:58 AM
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Bruce -- get a anonymous login and rave about your music???? Nope -- let me rave about your music for you: Bruce Satinover is like a god to me. His music has done more for my soul than perhaps any other artist on the Net. Satinover music is filled with humor, despair, insight, sarcasm, sincerity, hope and a true sense of caring. The chops are outrageous -- that he accomplishes the sounds he creates with the tools at his disposal is nothing short of miraculous. If you haven't yet listened to Bruce's music, DO NOT DELAY -- download some Satinover TODAY!!! No kidding. -- Bill House You are of course free to reprint that review anywhere you like. RS ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #9
huruo Newbie Posts: 13 |
posted 03-14-2000 08:54 AM
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If you're promotionally challenged, I must be plain promotionally dumb ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #10
Bruce Satinover Guru Posts: 253 |
posted 03-14-2000 07:00 PM
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I'm going to respond per person here so if you weren't following the thread it probably will be of little interest unless you've gotten this far.
sins, Andrew, Anne, Zap, Steve, Bill, huruo, Anyway, I did get several perspectives and some things to think about which I thank for those that responded. Bruce ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #11
BaptistDeathRay Guru Posts: 337 |
posted 03-14-2000 07:14 PM
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Ok Bruce, if Bill's post made you cringe, this promo will have you shrieking in terror: "There are people in the world who will live their lives in small, confined spaces, unwilling to look up, or outside, or even over their shoulder, too afraid of what they haven't seen or heard to accept even the possibility that there is life outside the range of their limited vision. They carry with them nothing more than a few crass memories and a limited range of thought and emotion. For the rest of us, there is Bruce Satinover." - The Baptist Death Ray
[This message has been edited by BaptistDeathRay (edited 03-14-2000).] IP: Logged |
| #12
RhythmStar Guru Posts: 277 |
posted 03-14-2000 07:40 PM
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Bruce -- I thought it might be a little over the top, but you happened to get one of my early, pre-dawn, caffeine-to-the-max moments. Feel free to leaven as needed to dispell small crawly things.  RS ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #13
RyanAvery Guru Posts: 168 |
posted 03-14-2000 07:52 PM
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I have to agree - promoting is "tough", in a sense. Of course, it doesn't take much brains to post flyers, messages, promos, etc., but it sure takes time (something which I usually like to spend writing songs). So, I've been thinking. I was going to do a catch phrase, but I see that someone's already given Bruce one (nice one, BDR, BTW). Maybe a logo would do me good. After all, I've had that same red/green picture that I've always had, ever since late last spring. Better yet, how about a full media blitz! I see public access spots lined up 24/7! Ryan Avery posters! Ryan Avery baseball caps! Ryan Avery burritos (hey, if Dillbert can do it, why can't I?)! Let's go all out on this one... OK, I got caught up in that. Why am I posting this? I don't know - I just felt a bit eccentric today. Or maybe I'm just trying to plaster my face on one more topic... (Note: This post was not meant to be a criticism of anyone here. If it criticizes anyone, then I'm criticizing people who post to newsgroups, bulletin boards, etc. with the body of their message being "Hey! Free music at this site! go to ________", and nothing else. Though I haven't seen anyone here who's doing that yet [probably because this is still beta, so all of those people have yet to arrive...]) OK, that's enough. Enjoy your day! ;-) ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #14
nakedDNA Guru Posts: 309 |
posted 03-14-2000 08:07 PM
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Bruce, To me, after a while, it has become irrelevant which band project you work on. Within the confines of each intended style, I associate them with Bruce Satinover and his vast arsenal of styles, tastes and musicianship. Even though I can't blame you for wanting to categorize your styles with band projects (and don't forget all the collaborations!), but as one person, you can not possibly be promoting all of the bands effectively. The promotion focus should be you, Bruce Satinover, the artist. Then all your projects become a curiosity for the fans to explore and discovered. Of course you were asking for specific promotional advise, so I don't know why I thought I could help you in that department! ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #15
Bruce Satinover Guru Posts: 253 |
posted 03-17-2000 02:56 PM
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BDR wrote:
quote: Not terror but I did feel my lunch come up. Bill, Ryan, Armen, Thanks all for the input. Bruce X Space listensmart.com/xspace ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #16
TentilEight Guru Posts: 294 |
posted 03-17-2000 04:44 PM
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Bruce, You have great music and slick production that stands head and shoulders above alot of the artists on the mp3 sites. I get the impression you are a person who 'says what he thinks' Am I right? If I am let me tell you, this is a double edged sword that may make you mum when it comes to 'tooting your own horn'. Possibly because you might be overly critical of your work or too modest to tell people how good you really are. Most of the people I have observed that scream about getting downloads or use the 'get in your face' technique of promotions aren't really all that great, just vocal on the boards. I believe all of us are looking for that mp3 site that has the 'promotional' model that will give us a chance to be heard and promoted based on merit alone and not millions of bb posts, flame wars, etc. If it's gonna happen anywhere I think it will be happen on the internet. Who knows, maybe it will be LS. 
[This message has been edited by TentilEight (edited 03-17-2000).] IP: Logged |
| #17
Bruce Satinover Guru Posts: 253 |
posted 03-17-2000 06:17 PM
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Jim, although I don't enjoy doing it I think we are responsible for our own promotion. When sites start promoting the same artists or style of artists that's a different issue. It is uncomfortable to say, "hey, I'm fabulous" but it's mostly along the lines of what Zap said, that's something instilled in me since I was a kid. Promoting in general doesn't bother me. I'm all for promoting people or issues I believe in, but feel like a terrible parody of the SNL Stuart Smally sketches saying, "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough and gosh darn it, people like me." Maybe if I endored food products? Bruce ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #18
BaptistDeathRay Guru Posts: 337 |
posted 03-17-2000 06:23 PM
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Bruce, the trick is to plug yourself while you're plugging another artist. Kind of like this: "The Baptist Death Ray is the single most important artist to come out of the internet music scene. And I should know, because I, Bruce Satinover, am without question a musical genius." ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #19
Al Steen Guru Posts: 120 |
posted 03-17-2000 07:11 PM
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Bruce, BDR's statement may have been in jest but he's right! .. Al ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #20
Incorporated Newbie Posts: 91 |
posted 03-17-2000 07:12 PM
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quote: This caused me to blow copious amounts of coca-cola out my nose.  Damn funny.Bruce, as I'm sure you already know, I have no advice to give. I have the same problem, so I'm reading everyone's advice with much interest. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #21
BaptistDeathRay Guru Posts: 337 |
posted 03-17-2000 09:43 PM
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Why, thank you Al! Oh. Wait. You were talking about Bruce, weren't you? ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #22
Bruce Satinover Guru Posts: 253 |
posted 03-17-2000 10:15 PM
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So let me see if I have this right, I say, Tom Aragon is like a God to me and I sign my name and that's all there is to it? Well that's a snap. I could do that. Bruce ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #23
BaptistDeathRay Guru Posts: 337 |
posted 03-17-2000 10:18 PM
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Actually, if you want to spin it right, you should say: Tom Aragon is a musical prophet -- and I should know. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #24
Artie J Guru Posts: 173 |
posted 03-18-2000 08:58 AM
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See what's going on here? If you can't hype yourself seriously, do it with HUMOR! The more outrageous the claim the better! People will go "What the hey..." and have to check out your stuff. Say, wait a minute...was this thread just a promotional idea of yours?!? ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #25
bobp Guru Posts: 595 |
posted 03-18-2000 11:06 AM
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Hey Bruce. Sorry I'm late to the thread, but I've been kinda busy with the outside world You know, as I've been struggling with this similarity of sounds and licks thing in my own music, you came to mind. I thought, Christ, maybe I should do what Bruce seems to do, which to my way of thinking is in part saying "to hell with convention" and just start coming up with extremely original, if occasionally "off the wall" sounding material. I joked in chat one night about my next tune using like a 49/8 time signature to assure originallity. That's how I think of your stuff. Not the 49/8, but some of the most original sounding material I've heard. It seems obvious to me, you don't do it to impress the masses. So, it's a little funny seeing you making a post about getting people to your sites, when in some ways when they get there, what you really want to do is torture some of them (the non-open minded ones) with burning cigarette ends. I hope you're laughing. Because I'm kidding..., sort of. I'm sure this thread (I have more to read) will help. But really, keep that signature url thing in all of your posts. You never know when someone like me, who already knows and has a bunch of your stuff, may want to easily zip over to get something. (hope mine is working, because I've dropped like the preverbial stone) Bob Porri ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #26
Bruce Satinover Guru Posts: 253 |
posted 03-18-2000 07:24 PM
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BDR, yes, I see the difference. The problem is I used to want to smack someone that did that kind of thing. Can i reconsile this hostility and still do stealth promotion? Time will tell. Al, Inc, TANKAR, Artie, Bob, Thanks everyone, X Space listensmart.com/xspace ....see, I remembered ------------------ [This message has been edited by Bruce Satinover (edited 03-18-2000).] IP: Logged |
| #27
Al Steen Guru Posts: 120 |
posted 03-18-2000 09:39 PM
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BDR, actually, both of you! Bruce, We've signed up here but don't have any songs up yet. I'll be doing that monday from work and then it's Plug,Plug,Plug! .. Al------------------ IP: Logged |
| #28
huruo Newbie Posts: 13 |
posted 03-19-2000 07:19 AM
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My respect for an artist drops cumulatively (that's a word, right?) with the number of postings about how great their music are. I've checked out the profiles on a lot of people on the mp3.com bboard, and a lot of people have been registered a month, and posted like 700 times. I dunno if their music suck so much or if they just don't care who their downloaders are. Bruce, you've been on mp3.com like two years now, right? Everyone knows who you are, and they can always trust your new projects are great, you don't need any shameless promotion, and frankly, I'm glad you don't er... shamelessly promote yourself like a lot of other people here (no names mentioned). You don't want 12-year-old Backstreet Boys fans even looking at your site, do you? ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #29
Bruce Satinover Guru Posts: 253 |
posted 03-21-2000 12:43 AM
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TANKAR, I know you were having a bit of fun but you know, I think the internet needs new music and different musicians. As someone that spends a great deal of time hearing other people's music I can say without hesitiation there is a lot of good music around. That said I had preferences that run in a more non commercial spectrum. mp3.com has decided to give the world, with some exceptions, white bread music and say, here, eat it, yum yum. They promote music that except for the name could sound like commercial radio. Is this bad? Not necessarily, but it's not good either. The point to all of the mp3 scene was to get a wide variety of music available. Instead most of the sites look for "the next big thing." No offense to you and your music but you aren't about to become the next teen idol. You write interesting songs and deal with issues that we don't get to hear on commercial radio. I'd put you on my short list for artists worth following. We've never worked together, we've maybe emailed one another once or twice, so I don't know you. I know you by your music and by your voice. I stand by what I say. Al, huruo, When I started this thread it was to get some pointers for me and maybe some others who found the promotional process difficult. Maybe it's of use to people. Maybe people think I did this to get cheap promotion. I didn't but I won't try to convince people. Thanks all for your comments, they're interesting even if I don't always agree. If there's one absolute it's that no one manner works for everyone and it's up to us to find our way in all of this. At least that's what I've gotten out of this thread. Bruce ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #30
weAponX Guru Posts: 2132 |
posted 03-21-2000 12:55 AM
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"Is this bad? Not necessarily..." Wrong it is 100% BAD ------------------ Social Spit! IP: Logged |
| #31
Tom Aragon Guru Posts: 334 |
posted 03-21-2000 01:13 AM
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Bruce Satinover.....Like a Brother 2 me ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #32
Galbatron Guru Posts: 100 |
posted 03-21-2000 03:20 AM
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Bruce, didn't Dave of ArtistLaunch send you what I sent him? Your name is mentioned nationwide. Now that should draw some visitors to your page ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #33
Al Steen Guru Posts: 120 |
posted 03-21-2000 10:20 AM
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Here's the plug! .. Al listensmart.com/badart ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #34
weAponX Guru Posts: 2132 |
posted 03-21-2000 11:25 AM
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I need to clarify this:
quote: Now, does it make sense when I say that what they do is 100% BAD? It is the case of Roll me another one just like the other one. The RIAA has been force-feeding us this DRECK for over 3 decades. MP3.com wants to make the RIAA roll over. Actually what MP3.com wants is to BECOME the RIAA. You see, thier standards about what is "Pop" music agree 100% with the RIAA version. So, 100% BAD ------------------ Social Spit! IP: Logged |
| #35
Bruce Satinover Guru Posts: 253 |
posted 03-22-2000 07:57 PM
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Tom, seeing as we're brothers and all, why don't you share your toys? Galbatron, weAponX, X Space listensmart.com/xspace ------------------ IP: Logged |
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